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Please refrain from copy and pasting messages over and over and over, or you will be removed from the forum. We all have input to make so let's keep this at a discussion and not a text block of commercials. Here are some helpful guidelines for good discussion and debate recommended by one of our members:

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Note: The opinions expressed by the moderators and members of this discussion board do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Occupy Together or Occupy Wall St. In the spirit of free information, open discussion, and the freedom of expression, members are able to speak about issues relating and directly pertaining to the Occupy movement. You will be banned for hate speech or intentional misinformation and please refrain from any violent rhetoric; this is a peaceful movement. Thank you.
Occupy Venice Talks with The Zeitgeist Movement LA
  • MundusVultDecipiMundusVultDecipi January 2012 +1 -1 (+1 / -0 )

    Agrees: marchelo

  • marchelomarchelo January 2012 +1 -1
    Great talk, thanks for sharing!
  • slave January 2012 +1 -1
    Too bad, they are not taking the idea of "parallel system" that seriously. People are suffering greatly and OWS has already shown that a lot of people are willing to step up to the plate given a real opportunity. Yet these guys are leaving out the most crucial step i.e., the first step. If they are waiting for people to just somehow "evolve" and embrace their techno solutions then they are missing the whole challenge facing the movement and therefore, their relevance. I liked the last audience member who challenged them about this issue, but he got generally shrugged off despite his persistence.

    The question should not be whether we need a "parallel system" here and now. But rather what should be the nature of this alternative system that (even as Peter Joseph himself commented) should challenge the "commodity based" (i.e., private ownership including money / profit) system of capitalism i.e., what would qualify as a genuine "parallel system" rather than a watered-down another unsustainable form of capitalism. They missed this huge opportunity to show their relevance, rather than just proselytize.

    OWS needs to clearly define the essential economic ingredients of a sustainable "parallel system" as an alternative means of living and thriving on the planet free of human exploitation and environmental degradation, in opposition to global capitalism. It needs to systematically apply "scientific and technological" means for this purpose of moving the struggle forward globally. Any individual / group that aspires to stay relevant in this struggle must be able to offer viable solutions based on "scientific research, analysis, and evidence" not just for the STRATEGIC goals but more importantly the more immediate TACTICAL measures that could lead up to the goals, using a consistent, cohesive, comprehensive approach. We cannot learn to fly if we can't even learn to walk.

    “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point, however, is to change it” (K. Marx)